you're on bill c, donald trump's campaign calendar is about to collide with his legal calendar. we'll have the latest on the twice impeached, twice indicted ex presidents suppressing legal entanglement. plus, the stroke of opinion september 1974 led to one unrepentant ex president off the hook but it might have also helped set the stage for a dangerous behavior of another unrepentant ex president. my friend -- is here to talk about why black ownership is media's so we're, and why representation matters, not just on screen, but in ownership, as well. then, today's featured offer in the velshi banned book club says the sex education that includes a same-sex couple is, quote, institutional homophobia. so she did something about it. she wrote this book is gay. a funny informative crucial

guidebook that is currently number 10 on the american library list of most banned books. velshi starts now. -- it's saturday june, 16th ali velshi -- former president and -- donald trump is alleged to have absconded with top secret classified documents belonging to the united states government. his defenders are debasing themselves and their preclinical party to defend their dear donald, but first things first, trump did not mishandled with documents. mishandling is careless, a mistake perhaps, not having state secrets -- at your golf club. not taking u.s. battle plans from the white house, keeping them in violation of the law and the subsequent corridor, and then waving them around in a meeting with a writer and a publisher, neither of whom have security clearances or the need to know any of that information. but perhaps most damning is

trump's public defense against the indictments. the fact is he is not really denying the key points, the fact has alleged in the 37 accounts. trump has readily admitted on the campaign trail, and public that he took the documents, and that he, indeed, have them at his golf club. trump's defenders don't seem to be arguing the facts, either. instead, they're attacking the justice department for pursuing the charges in the first place and they sunk back to schoolyard antics whining and what about-ing in an echo of eight years ago. the phrase but her emails, has made it back into the gop's political rhetoric. so of course, it's a reference to hillary clinton's -- private email server when she was secretary of state. a controversial decision that the state department ultimately said did increase the risk of compromising classified information. but after multiple investigations, the episode concluded with officials finding no evidence of deliberate mishandling of classified information, and a

republican appointed fbi director saying that no reasonable prosecutor would bring charges in the case. just like she was never found to have done anything wrong from the countless benghazi in vaccinations -- kevin mccarthy once admitted on television, were deliberately orchestrated by republicans as a political endeavor to cenk clinton's poll numbers. and now republicans appear to be trying that same tactic on joe biden, opening investigations in the house, so throwing around a lot of accusations and insinuations about corruption in biden family business dealings. but so far, they have yet to turn up a shred of evidence of any specific act of corruption. >> the trump defenders debunked a years old conspiracy theory which appears to have first with none other than mr. four seasons landscaping himself, rudy giuliani. he plays a part in trump's first impeachment, claiming the bidens took bribes. unlike the 45-page indictment of donald trump, which could

clearly presents evidence of wrongdoing, trump defenders, including the chair the oversight committee, james comer, never actually produced any evidence. publicly admitting they don't even know if it exists. but insist that biden is guilty, and must be impeached. the other favorite and what about-ism of trump's defenders is what about the classified documents that were found in joe biden's possession? you may recall some classified documents were found in one of biden's residences, but biden, like former vice president mike pence, who is among the 12 declared republican presidential candidates, and who is also had classified documents discovered at his residence, turned them over once they were discovered. they followed proper protocols, and they cooperated with it officials. there's no evidence to show to anyone, or bragged about them to anyone. and so, no charges have been brought against either of them. it's not a coincidence that none of the charges of the trump indictment involve any of the documents that trump did

initially turnover. at the same time, as it relates to what the actual trump legal defense in court will be, it's worth noting, the documents that trump kept audible room stage, next to a toilet, dexter his golf club, are so sensitive, and so secret, that trump's own legal team has not been allowed to see them yet. his lawyers do not have proper security clearances. only yesterday did they notify the judge that they are working to obtain clearance, a process which could take a month. now, once the defense lawyers are cleared, and able to view evidence, court papers filed yesterday by prosecutors revealed that among the evidence is information about quote, ongoing investigations that could identify uncharged individuals. all the while, trump remains the front runner for the republican nomination for president by a long shot. joining me now, barbara mcquade, former united states attorney for the eastern district. also an nbc legal analyst.

also jennifer reuben, opinion writer from of washington post, msnbc political analyst, author of the important book, resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump. good morning to both of you, thank you for being with us. jennifer reuben, let me start with you this morning. because i think i've laid out the case here. whatever you think about the legal case, and your both lawyers, and there is going to be a trial, there has not been a trial, a jury, has not examine the evidence, but the argument coming from trump's world, the ridiculous. i am puzzled why very, very few people, not zero, because a number of republicans have looked at this and said these are serious charges, former attorney general bill barr says if it's true, trump is toast. pence won't even get on board with this stuff. but most republicans are full of whataboutism on this one. >> they really are. the reason they haven't made any specific criticisms of the indictment is it is one of the more specific, one of the more damning indictments that you're ever going to see. barbara was a prosecutor, so

she knows, that when you lay out facts that are this compelling, i caulking indictment, because it fills in the public on what exactly went on. it is really jaw-dropping, and in fact, as you point out, some of these documents are so sensitive, that the names of the documents have been redacted. so your right, the nature of the documents that he took is incredibly damning. incredibly serious, and he keeps frankly, confessing, on national television, or on truth social, he keeps saying, yes i took these documents, they were mine, in fact he wants them back. so there's no doubt that he knew they were there, there is no doubt that he will fully retained those documents. and he is going to come up with all sorts of shenanigans, all sorts of claims, first he said he declassified them, then he said he didn't. then he said, you know perhaps they were planted. he really can't decide on any

defense. but here's the thing. in court you have to make a defense based on some sort of facts, or actually raise reasonable doubt of that the prosecutors have presented a compelling case. and i think he's going to be down to delay, delay, delay, and making all of these public accusations, but eventually, he will have to face the music. this case will go to a jury. >> barbara mcquade, let's talk legal turkey for a second, by the way, i don't know if you're here in michigan, and be junior michigan, that's fantastic to be outside. i don't know if you are there. but let's talk a -- perfect, okay, excellent. watch out for the black flies. letitia james, the attorney general of new york state was at an event with pod save america the other day, she said that she believes of her case, and the case of manhattan district attorney bragg, that they're going to, in her words, unfortunately, have to be adjourned pending the outcome of the federal case.

i want to ask you about why that would be the case, because fani willis in georgia was not brought her case yet, who has not, she. has told a reporter there that the case, the federal case against donald trump will not impact any criminal prosecution here. what is the distinction between laetitia james civil case in new york, manhattan district attorney alvin bragg's case, and fani willis's case that she is developing. >> i think that attorney general james is correct about her own case, because it is a civil case. because in a criminal case, defendants have a right to a speedy trial, that prevails. and so sometimes, if there is a conflict on trial schedules, criminal case will go first, and i would note, is not only the defendants right to a speedy trial. as you know, as jen just said, she's going to see delay, delay, delay when it comes to donald trump. it's also the public's right to a speedy trial in a criminal

case. the civil case, it'll take a backseat. i don't know that i agree that alvin bragg's criminal case will be delayed because of donald trump's case. typically, first time, first in writing. if alvin bragg's case was filed first, i think it's been scheduled for march, i would expect that to take priority. and then, which rings true on fani willis, which is i don't know that any case goes first before mine. now again, before the mar-a-lago case has been filed first, before her case gets filed, i think she might have to wait in line behind jack smith on this one. >> jen reuben, not being a felon is not, it's not listed in the constitution as a requirement for being president of the united states. you have to be at least 35 years of age, you have to be a natural born citizen, not a naturalized citizen, and you must be living in the united states for at least 14 years. there was one specific charge

that was not brought against donald trump in the indictment that did have as a clause, that if you're convicted of this, you can hold office. although some lawyers say that that wouldn't stand up to constitutional muster anyway. i don't know if there's any likelihood that donald trump is convicted of anything, and whether he's convicted, whether it's before the next election, but what do you believe, if he is convicted, is the impact that it has on him being president? >> as a legal matter, you're exactly right. theoretically, he could be in jail and run for president. that happened with eugene v debs, the socialist who is in prison at the time. and theoretically at least, you could be convicted, and still be elected. i believe the frame never imagined that the american people would put a felon in the white house. but it is theoretically possible. as a practical matter, this really shifts to the republican party, and they have to, voters in the primaries, and political leaders, in their party, they have to decide whether this is the route they want to go down.

do they really want to have the prospect of a incarcerated president? and risk all of the constitutional issues that would arise from that? do they want the prospect of a president trying to pardon himself? do they want him trying to apply pressure to any republicans who pardon him? this becomes a constitutional political farce and fiasco. the fact that so many republicans are still sticking by him, it may be shocking. but i will say this, it is very different to tell a pollster in june of 2023, that you're still sticking by the president because you think the media is out to get him, you think democrats are out to get him. it is quite another to get in the voting booth a year from now, for if your primary voter, or to be a delegate at the convention and say yes, this is the guy we actually want to put on the ticket. and they really do have to think about whether the electorate as a whole, the american people as a whole, are really going to elect such a person. i would suggest that that is really impossible to imagine.

republicans i think have to get their minds around this idea, you're right, bill barr, mike pence, trey gowdy, chris christie, there's a list of republicans who are trying to tell them to get real. and they should listen to that advice. >> barbara, i want to ask you about another legal matter. about the e. jean carroll case. the second part of this case, the second trial. january 5th, 2024, the 15th, here's what happened. a couple days ago, u.s. district judge luis kaplan ruled that e. jean carroll's remaining 10 million dollar defamation suit against donald trump could proceed. this is an amended version of an earlier lawsuit that was filed over comments that donald trump made about e. jean carroll back in 2019. carol has been allowed to amend this because, i don't know, a day or two after this last verdict that found him liable, he went on donald trump and said largely the same things that he said about her that he was deemed liable of four. can you explain to my viewers what's going on next january with e. jean carroll is in a

different case, the same case? in increased from what happened last time? >> this is the case that goes back to the comments donald trump made while he was president. they amended the complaint to add the comments he made at that cnn town hall after the verdict what was sometimes referred to as carol to, based on the 2019 statements. there had been in arguments as the statements that don trump made while president might be protected by some sort of immunity, because the justice department had weighed in on that but now by amending the complaint of these things that he made, statements he made after he left office, i think it takes any of those arguments off the table, a jury will be able to hear about this defamation, in gosh if there's ever stronger case i don't know what it is for proving defamation? the day after a jury was found that he made defamatory statements against her, and he did in fact sexually assault her, he says it again, and so i think not only is liability

very strong here, but i think the probability of very strong punitive damages is so much higher, just because it's on notice now. a jury has found that his statements were false, and so i think she is in very good legal standing. i give her credit for bringing these case. i think many plaintiffs would've been declared -- the fact that he continues to say these things with impunity, i think it makes her courageous in the right move for her to go after him again. >> i don't know how long the three of us have been talking about various things. i always think, next week will be this weird. and then next week is simply even more weird. thank you to both of you, i appreciate you making it less weird by giving us such great interpretation. barbara mcquade is a former united states attorney in michigan, and an msnbc legal analyst. -- reuben is an opinion writer for washington post and author of resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump. up next, the growing field of 2024 republican candidates cannot dodge the question for a long. will you potentially pardon

donald trump if you are elected to office? we'll get into the lessons we should take from president gerald ford pardon of richard nixon, with the former congresswoman, liz holmes man, a member of the house judiciary community during the watergate scandal. she asked president ford about this a very specific order. plus calling to order the velshi banned book club on the agenda, juneau dawson, this book is gaius. ex education guidebook for lgbtq plus youth. their parents, and their allies. it has entirely unsurprisingly become one of the top ten most banned books in america. you are watching velshi. are watching velshi. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases!

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it's happening. get started with fast speeds and advanced security for $49.99 a month for 12 months. plus ask how to get up to a $750 prepaid card >> gerald ford had only been with qualifying internet. president for 31 days when he sat down in front of the camera in the oval office to make a special announcement. it was sunday, september the

8th, 1974, and the new republican president had decided to grant a pardon to his predecessor, richard nixon. it in his televised speech, ford spoke of the magnitude of his decision, he expressed a desire to move on from the watergate scandal that had consumed the country for more than two years. quote, it could go on, and on, and on, or someone must write the end to it. i have concluded, that only i could do that. and if i can, i must. and quote. while forced decision to pardon nixon may have effectively ended the watergate saga, it didn't provide a neat resolution, or sense of closure. there were still a lot of loose ends to tie up. the pardon preempted further action from the special prosecutor's office, and prevented that office from issuing an indictment against nixon, a possibility that remained very real at the time. one month earlier, a memo was submitted to watergate special prosecutor, leon jaworski, regarding the possible indictment of nixon. it was written by two of his aides, and they were blunt in their assessment of the case.

quote, in our view, there is clear evidence that richard m. nixon participated in a conspiracy to obstruct justice by concealing the identity of those responsible for the watergate break-in, and other criminal offenses. and quote. the full squad of the wrongdoings wasn't entirely clear yet. a separate memo, from september the 3rd, 1974, five days before the pardon was issued, from a another aide, listed ten distinct matters that were, quote still under investigation, and may prove to have some direct connection to activities, in which mr. nixon was personally involved. and quote. public opinion wasn't on for side either. a gallup poll from that time found the majority of americans, 56%, said they wanted nixon to face criminal charges. people even came up to protest the pardon. in fact, forts approval rating plummeted, and never fully recovered. time however has been relatively kind to ford, and his part of nixon.

public opinion has flipped, with the majority of americans now looking favorably upon ford's decision. but it demands a reexamination in light of donald trump's historic federal indictment. and the prospect of more to come. ford pardon of nixon was a bandage for a wound that required sutures. trump has reopened that wound. it, it's debatable whether a man as shameless as richard nixon, like donald trump himself, would have been humbled by the threat of a possible conviction. but maybe a ford had let the process play out, nixon would've been made an example, and donald trump would not now be under the notion that presidents get special treatment under the law. maybe nixon himself could've been convinced that there are limits to presidential powers, and maybe when he sat down for an interview with the british journalist, david frost, several years later, after watergate, in 1977, nixon wouldn't have professed his belief that quote, when the president doesn't, that means it's not illegal. maybe one of nixon successors would not have been brazen enough to hoard classified

documents and, government records, and share nixon sentiments about the absolutism of presidential authority. >> if you're the president of the united states, you can classify just by saying, is the classified, even by thinking about it. because you are sending it to mar-a-lago, or to wherever you're signing it, and it, doesn't have to be a process, it can be a process, but doesn't have to be. >> it's not a coincidence that there's echoes of richard nixon and donald trump. the two struck up a friendship in the final decade of nixon's life. a few years ago, the richard nixon foundation on earth personal letters between the two men. in a letter dated june 1982, trump told nixon, quote, i think that you're one of this country is great men. in another correspondents, from january 1993, trump wrote quote, i have always had, and always will have, the utmost respect and admiration for you. some people learn the wrong lessons from watergate. richard nixon, and what he did in watergate should not be

anybody's role model. the same can be said about donald trump, twice impeached, twice indicted, and still facing a multitude of legal troubles. with some of the republican party crescent corner did's already vowing if elected president, to pardon trump, like ford pardoned nixon's. it's more important than ever that we let this judicial process play out. we like to say that in the u.s., no one is above the law, but the history of watergate proves that not to be entirely true. we have a chance to course correct now, let the process play, out let him face the justice system, let a jury of his peers, american citizens decide his fate, instead of one of his colleagues that finds political benefit in the matter. it is time for republicans to heed the warning that former congresswoman liz cheney gave on june 9th of last year. exactly one year prior to the unsealing of the federal indictment of donald trump. >> tonight, i say this to my republican colleagues, who are defending the indefensible. there will come a day, when donald trump is gone.

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it's your verizon. >> this is a matter. that has suddenly become important again. nearly 50 years ago, president gerald ford made the decision to pardon president richard nixon before investigations into nixon's conduct were complete. it was not a popular decision at the time. among the majority of americans who did not think richard nixon should've been pardoned, was a young congresswoman by the name of elizabeth holtzman. but unlike most other americans, who disagreed with ford's decision, holtzman was able to press him on it directly, about a month after he issued the pardon, in front of the house judiciary subcommittee, and the country. >> mr. ford, you have stated that theory on which you've pardoned richard nixon was that he has suffered enough. and i, i'm interested in that theory. because the logical consequence

of that is that somebody who resigns in the face of virtually certain impeachment, or somebody who is impeached should not be punished, because the impeachment, or the resignation is punishment enough. i wondered whether anybody had brought to your attention the fact that the constitution specifically set states that even though somebody is impeached, that person shall, nonetheless, be liable to punishment according to law. >> mrs. holtzman, i was fully cognizant of the fact that the president upon resignation was accountable for any criminal charges. but i would like to say, that's the reason i gave the pardon, was not as to mr. nixon himself. i repeat, and i repeat with emphasis, the purpose of the pardon was to try and get the

united states, the congress, the president, and american people focusing on the serious problems we have, both at home, and abroad. and i was absolutely convinced then, as i am now, that if we had had this series, and indictment, a trial, a conviction, and anything else that transpired after that, that the attention of the president, congress, and american people would have been diverted from the problems that we have to solve. and that was the principal reason for my granting of the pardon. >> gerald ford said he parted richard nixon to spare the country from the embarrassment a distraction of a possible indictment, a trial, a conviction. he also spared an unrepentant ex president from justice. and now is donald trump faces felony charges, his sense of invincibility points to the idea of presidential impunity, planted with ford's pardon of nixon half a century ago. joining me now is the

aforementioned former congresswoman elizabeth holtzman of new york, who is a member of the house judiciary committee during the watergate scandal. she's the author of several books, including the case for impeaching donald trump, published in 2019, also prosecutor herself. so she knows what she speaks on this. liz, i don't know when you asked that question back in 1974, whether you are wondering the influence that would have 50 years later. the idea that we are hearing from other presidential candidates, that if they become president, more than half of them are inclined to pardon donald trump. without having heard the evidence by the way. hopefully they've read the indictment, but they haven't seen any case yet. >> well i knew it was wrong at that time, and i knew it would set a terrible example of presidential impunity. i mean you could just see what what president ford said at that time, that he switching his argument. first it was president nixon suffered enough, secondly it's really the country would be distracted by focusing on nixon,

and not the problems of the country, i mean the fact of the matter is he set a terrible example. he short circuited the process of justice, and he created, for the country, a sense of a dual system of justice. his underlings were -- they were then being prosecuted, and they were going to be sent to jail. but nixon, who did the same things, and worked with them, and ordered, he gave the orders, he would be exempt? so the highest and mightiest goes free? but the others don't? think about the same thing with regard to former president trump. there are people right now sitting in jail for doing exactly what trump did, in fact nothing a serious. because they didn't conceal, and obstruct the effort to obtain the classified information. they didn't lie about it, they didn't try to conceal, and hide. and they're sitting in jail

what argument are we gonna tell the american people? a president who does the same thing as any other person, those other people can't go to jail, but somehow our president is exempt,? that's wrong. it sets an example of impunity, and it creates the example of donald trump, who thought he was above the law, and he still thinks he's above the law. i mean, just in my mind he thinks he can be classified document. >> he also says he's entitled to the document. he misread statutes. the indictment, 45 pages long, it's actually not that hard to read. it's pretty straightforward as to what it alleges. i am puzzled as to why so many people are having trouble with this thing. i'm just going through a list of presidential candidates, those who have said that they will process possibly pardon trump if elected. -- nikki haley is apparently a soft yes, even though she says he was incredibly reckless with our national security. larry elder is a yes, mike

pence says i can't defend what is alleged. tim scott has no comment, rhonda sanchez has implied easiest. okay, asa hutchinson is a no. chris christie is a no. francis suarez, he just entered the race, the mayor of miami, has said i would use the pardon power to heal the country. that is an echo of what gerald ford said. does it heal the country to say let's move on from this ugly chapter? >> no, first of all detail the country that. gerald ford was defeated, and i want to tell that to every single republican candidate, who says that they want to pardon trump. ford lost his effort to be elected president, because of the pardon. and any candidate who is going to support a dual system of justice, create a kind of special sort of almost monarchy, so that our presidents are beyond the reach of the law, beyondbeyond accountability, thy will go down to defeat.

that is a very powerful lesson, do not play around with and pander with regard to pardons. that is a dangerous and wrong thing to do. and it didn't heal the country. because we never dealt with the underlying problems of a rogue president. a president who has no guardrails. a president who disobeys the law. we saw haven't done that with regard to what we found out with respect to trump. so it is wrong to focus on a pardon. let the criminal justice system work. maybe, who knows what will happen. maybe trump will plead guilty. maybe trump will say, you, know i did something wrong. maybe he won't be convicted. maybe the jury will acquit him. but the process works, he is not a king. we abolished the idea of a king in 1776. and we are not going back. the constitution is very clear about it. trump, he wants to get

reelected, he can't pardon himself either. some people say a president can pardon himself, he can't do that for the same reason. the constitution says that president, that whoever, that presidents can be punished according to law. they can be indicted. they can be prosecuted. they can be convicted. well that would be meaningless if a president could pardon himself. so that is nonsense. trump doesn't have the power to pardon himself, and other presidential candidates should be very careful about talking about the pardon, because they can go down just the way gerald ford did. >> liz, as always, thank you for joining us this morning. thank you for important work that you did 50 years ago. you're the second person this morning i've been able to thank for important work that goes back decades. the woman who fought for juneteenth, and now you. thank you so much. you are formal democratic congress woman from new york. i want to show you pictures, you can see them in the bottom right corner. this is president biden in

pennsylvania, i believe he is going to be getting into a helicopter. you can see the big tall guy in the picture right in front of you, that is of course pennsylvania senator -- pretty much guaranteed he's the tallest guy in any picture. i think they're getting into a helicopter. i don't know how they're doing. you obviously can't drive to that i-95, that is not only been destroyed, but demolished because there is so much damage from the fuel tanker that caught fire underneath it. i believe the president might be getting into a helicopter to over fly the damage. but of course, this is going to be, now we're told, months, and months and months of work. that highway is completely closed in both directions. there's a hole there that they are going to be rebuilding a portion -- one of the busiest highways in the import entire united states. we'll be back for that. ack for that without fingersticks. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. it's covered by medicare for those who qualify. ask your doctor about the freestyle libre 2 system.

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has issued a scathing report about the minneapolis police department after a sweeping two-year investigation launched in the wake of george floyd's murder in 2020. the united states merrick garland reveal the results yesterday, which found the department engaged in the pattern or practice of using excessive force, including unjustified deadly force, and racial discrimination. it is regarded the safety and people in its custody for years. garland said the department of justice will now begin negotiating a consent degree with the city that's enforceable by a court, and would allow it to oversee the city's progress on reform. we're gonna have a whole lot more to say on this story tomorrow morning, when i will be joined by the attorney general of minnesota, keith ellison. again, tomorrow morning, ten, am eastern, only on velshi. on monday, the nation is going to celebrate juneteenth, commemorating the day in 1865 when the last enslaved african americans who were in texas were informed that they had been freed. be sure to join me tomorrow with my conversation of the

grandmother of juneteenth herself, miss opal lee, who was instrumental in the movement to elevate juneteenth to a federal holiday. she made in her life's mission, and that mission was accomplished. she is 96 years old, at the age of 89, she walked from texas to d.c.. -- about a mile from here. that's tomorrow morning, right here on velshi. but first, right after the break i'm gonna call -- velshi banned book club. on the agenda, you know dawson, this book is gay. imagine that this one has been banned. keep it here, back at 11. , back at 11

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game over. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, yeah, like me. thanks, bro. take a lap, rookie. real mature. i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000. >> today's velshi banned book club feature, this book is gay, starts like this. quote, there's a long running joke that on coming out, a young lesbian, gay guy, bisexual, or trans person, should receive a membership card and instruction manual. this is your instruction manual. you're welcome. and quote. this book is gave reads as

exactly that. it's a guide, equal parts humorous and informative. this book would make as much sense like on your coffee table as it would being aside reading in a high school sexual education class. this book is gay is divided into sections, identity, stereotypes, queer history, coming, out relationships, including sex, and interspersed with candid first person aired is from real people. although this book is gaye's nonfiction, the author, juneau dawson, is presenting, is present on each page. irreverent and assured, job dawson is a guide within the guidebook, and she should be. she spent nearly a decade as a sexual education and wellness teacher in the united kingdom before becoming a full-time writer. she is also a staunch advocate for the lgbtq+ community. toward the end of the book, there's a chapter titled the ins and outs of gay sex. it begins like this. quote, this chapter is about sex. if you are younger reader, and feel you aren't ready for the finer details of same-sex pairings, than simply skip this whole chapter. and quote.

i will take a moment to say, in no uncertain terms, that this book is not designed for young children, it's not run for children, it's not marketed to children. but to for those who it is age-appropriate, and who may needed, it's a crucial read. dawson goes on to remind the reader that the exclusion of same sex couples and sex ed classes is nothing short of quote, institutional homophobia. this chapter includes potentially lifesaving information on sexually transmitted infections, including hiv and a.i.d.s., diagrams of sexual organs, like he might see in a health class. and later, a commentary on love. and it is this section that is referenced most often, largely out of context, in the relentless calls to ban this book across the united states. this book is guy has been among the american library association's top 13 banned books for multiple years. i could go on to list the states where the book has been banned, but instead i'm gonna share a different kind of list. florida's broward county, which include fort lauderdale, ended

the school year with no sexual education at all. george's gwinnett county, which makes up part of the atlanta metro area, has voted to stick with abstinence only education. school district across kentucky have had to overhaul their curriculum to comply with new bans on sex education, gender identity, and student pronouns. i could go on and on and on, state by state. the list is wrong, the reality is this. at some point between high school, college, and young and old hood, most everyone is going to be confronted with the situation related to sex, and sexuality. relationships can be the most beautiful, and rewarding part of life. they can also be the most damaging. physically and emotionally. for lgbtq plus youth, the stakes are even higher. certain states are leaving young people vulnerable was nowhere to turn, inadequate sex ed, no access to books like this book is, gay and the most vulnerable group of all, again, lgbtq plus youth. sending our young people, regardless of their sexual orientation, or their identity,

into the world without a comprehensive understanding of how to protect themselves from sexually transmitted infections, or pregnancy, is a huge problem. sending our young people into the world without a conversation about what respect looks like within the confines of a relationship is nothing short of a crisis. right after this break i'm joined by juneau dawson, the author of today's velshi banned book club feature. this book is gay. book is gay one prilosec otc each morning blocks heartburn all day and all night. prilosec otc reduces excess acid for 24 hours, blocking heartburn before it starts. one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn. [ tiger dust by yello playing in the background ] blocking heartburn before it starts. turn right on to western avenu. [ dog barks ] you have reached your destination. one more?

♪ one more time ♪ turn right on to western avenu. id. light in the all-electric id.4. it's the little things, it's a vw. (tap, tap) listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later i still smell fresh. secret works. ohhh yesss. your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. (vo) this is sadie, she's on verizon. and she has the new myplan where she gets exactly what she wants, gamechanger for my patients- and only pays for what she needs. she picks only the perks she wants, and saves on every one. all with an incredible new iphone. act now and get iphone 14 pro max on us when you switch. it's your verizon. >> all right, without further

ado, i'm joined now by juneau dodson, author of numerous, books including today's velshi banned book club feature, this book is gay. welcome, thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. you're not here often, you are here where the book came out, which was 2015. >> that's right, yes. >> and it wasn't particularly controversial when it came out. >> not at all, the book came out with no fuss. i tottenham erica with david levinson, which i know you've had on -- around new york, and new jersey, and it was fine. throw no issues whatsoever. it is well reviewed, everything was going swimmingly. >> what happened? >> it was, wolfers of, all 2016, sarah palin stomping ground in alaska, that was the first challenge. it was asked to be removed from the library, the librarian agreed it should be in a restricted section for teenagers, which i fully understand. the problem went away, and we didn't really hear anything for maybe two or three years later. and then around 2019, it was

like dominoes starting to fall. in some states, in some schools, some libraries, librarians just are getting pushback. and then in 2020, things really stepped up a gear. it was being banned everywhere, and it made the top ten band books for the first time. >> so the argument with books like this, or books about black history, or whatever the case is, is that you are meeting to indoctrinate young people, i guess in this case, you're meeting to indoctrinate young people into being gay. >> that's argument. but if that were true, i would be a very hungry caterpillar, and i'm not. i just felt, you know, i wrote this book for myself when i was 13 or 14 years old. you know, i grew up with very poor sexy relationship education in the uk. i was taught how babies are made, and how they're born, and that would be great if i weren't transgender. but i didn't know anything about myself, i wasn't aware i could be trans. >> were they're books readily available for a trans person of

your age? >> there was nothing. nothing on television at all. nothing, nothing. i went into my young adult life when i went to college, so unprepared. and i see now, as an adult, i was left very vulnerable. i didn't fully understand consent, i didn't fully understand boundaries. i didn't understand that it could say notice things. that meant a lot of people were able to take advantage of me. you know, my early twenties were traumatic in lots of ways, i just sort of thought, what if modern teenagers didn't need to enter adulthood as clueless as i was. i wanted to just give them some backup, you know? i wanted them to go into adulthood prepared in a way that i just wasn't. >> i want to talk about the specific criticisms describing the book as inappropriate and pornographic. the critics tend to hone in on the single passage and share it without context. >> every time, they take a screen grab.

usually it's the page where we look at estes male body, and assist female body, and we talk about where the erosion is zones on human body. and i think, it is sex education class, i think we should be teaching young people about sex, that it can and should be pleasurable. i felt that wasn't controversial, and i certainly didn't feel it was pornographic. i think if you find this book is pornographic, i think this is a lot more about you as a reader, that it does about the text. because it's like, it's a high school biology book. >> it's essentially a modern textbook. >> 100 percent. >> the textbooks we had had pictures in them. i think that's a misunderstanding of pornography, right? >> if you think immunity and discussions about the bodies pornography, they're just different things. >> i think that's really dangerous, that's something else i wanted to do with the book. which was i knew from being a teacher, that kids were getting smartphones when they were, what ten, 11, 12 years old? and a soon as a young person

has a smartphone, obviously it's pandora's box. and i'm not here to judge pornography, but i am here to say the pornography is not responsible sex education. i think it is giving young people a very skewed idea of what a sexual relationship looks like. and so i wanted to kind of address that, and say porn is porn, this is education, and this is, i hope, and i hope any parent or educator would understand the goal of this book. and the goal of this book was never, ever, to be pornographic. but sharing a single passage, out of context doesn't feel very fair. and in fact, a lot of times critics of this book are sharing material that is not even from this book. i've been accused -- >> that's often the case here. >> it gets in your head for a while, i thought gosh, did i write that? and then was like, no i didn't. like this is, it's kind of gaslighting. i don't even write a lot of what i'm being accused of. >> one of the things i hear people who write books, particularly about queer experiences, is that they get

notes from people who got the book, or who read the book. in some cases, those people may have been led to take their own lives, or certainly lead to pressing lives, or as you said, enter adulthood unprepared. do you get that kind of feedback? does that offset the bs of having your book banned? >> it does. i do, i get way more fan mail than i do hate mail. especially since i've left twitter, i get very little actually. >> oh my god, i'm so envious of that. >> do, it you won't regret it. there is a really key moment a couple of months ago, a big awards ceremony in london, where, heart stopper, the big netflix show, a couple of actors from heart stopper came running over to me, they said oh my god, my mom bought me or book when i was 13, and these people are now happy, successful, thriving adults. i was like well, that was the point. i wanted young queer people to become happy, successful, queer adults. and now the book has been out for nearly ten years. it's doing really, it's really

lovely to see the results of what happens if you give young queer people education, they have a shot, they have a shot at making it through those very turbulent teenage years. >> yeah. >> and a way that they're better adjusted than i got to be. >> those years are turbulent if you're not struggling with your sexuality. so thank you for this. thank you for writing the book, thank you for joining us here. >> thank, you and thank you for everything you do. it is an amazing thing. >> jude austin is the author of this book is gay, which is today's velshi banned book club entry. all right, straight ahead, the very latest on the indictment of donald trump. how the former president's defenders are debasing themselves with their defense of how it is affecting the 2024 campaign trail and the future of american democracy. another hour of velshi begins right now. >> right now. >> >> i'm ali velshi, let's cut right to the chase. former president and current

presidential candidate donald trump is alleged to have -- with top secret classified documents belong to the united states government, and his defenders are debasing themselves and their political party to defend their dear donald. first things first, trump did not just mishandle these documents. mishandling's carelessness. mishandling could be a mistake perhaps. but not having state secret spilled on the four of an unsecured closet at your golf club. not taking u.s. battle plans from the white house, keeping them in violation of the law, and of a subsequent court order, and then waving them around in a meeting with a writer in a publisher, neither of whom have security clearances, or the need to know that information. but perhaps most damaging is trump's public defense against the indictment. the fact that he is not really denying any of the key points. the facts, as alleged in the 37 counts. trump is readily admitting on the campaign trail, in public, that he took the documents, and that he indeed had them at his golf club. trump's defenders don't seem to be arguing the facts either. instead they're attacking the